BISHOP T. D. JAKES:
Hatred, pain, unforgiveness, drugs, alcohol,
broken homes, broken dreams...
With Bill and Janae Cooksey
...terminal kidney disease...orphaned and
Taken From "Cooksey's
American Carousel Radio Classics"
TWELVE MEN WITH A PASTOR'S HEART
BILL: Janae, have you prayed this interview with Bishop Jakes will go smoothly?
JANAE: Of course! However, I agree it's been a struggle trying to get him pinned down to the exact hour when we can talk to him.
BILL: Hey, listen. This is Bishop T.D. Jakes. This guy's hot! I don't know how he has time to do anything. He's always the keynote speaker at all these women's' conferences. He's got that weekly TV show on Trinity. And who knows how many radio stations he's on now?
JANAE: Plus, he's just moved to Dallas to become Pastor of The Potter's House.
BILL: That was quite a move since he had spent about ten years in Charleston, West Virginia as Pastor of the Temple of Faith. This man is in big demand everywhere.
JANAE: And you can't walk in a Christian bookstore without seeing a whole collection of his latest publications.
BILL: You know, we're really blessed he'd agree to do this at all.
JANAE: We've missed connections twice already and had to reschedule the interview for today.
BILL: Well, he's coming to Sacramento this coming week. So for the message about his upcoming meeting to get to our listeners, we have to do this today.
JANAE: Well, the people in his office have been extremely helpful everytime I've talked to them. I'm sure it will fly today.
RICH: Hey, Guys. Bishop Jakes called in himself on the front office line and needs to speak to one of you right away. Just pick up the phone in the production room at the end of your table.
BILL: Thanks, Rich. I'll get it.....Hello, Bishop Jakes. How are you doing?
JAKES: I'm fine, but I needed to ask if we could maybe do this interview a little later today?
BILL: Well, that might be difficult since we only have the studio booked from now until noon.
JAKES: I'm so sorry. But, you see, I'm selling my house today and some people just came in the door for me to show them around. I don't see how I can put them off for 20 or 30 minutes. I...uh...
BILL: Well, Bishop, our listeners have really requested you on the show and we've told people already you'd be on this week. Is there anyway we could just have you lead in a sinner's prayer for just five minutes? I mean, there are so many people in the San Francisco and Sacramento area that could turn their hearts to the Lord if they recognized your name and voice from TV and radio. We're here to try to win souls for the Kingdom. I know that's where your heart is at also.
JAKES: Well, I guess I could do that, if we could start right now.
BILL: Wonderful! Praise the Lord! You hang up and I'll have our Producer, Rich, call you immediately on the studio line. And we'll be off and running.
JAKES: That sounds good.
BILL: We'll be right back to you in less than two minutes. So, please stand by the phone. Bye....
JANAE: What did he say?
BILL: Rich, can you hear me through this mike in the control room?
RICH: Yeah, Bill. What's up?
BILL: Please call the Bishop right back. Some people are there to buy his house and he's willing to give us at least five minutes if we begin RIGHT NOW! Please hurry!
I'm dialing the number now. The tape is ready to roll.
BILL: Janae, I don't have time to explain. But Bishop Jakes may only be able to just pray the sinner's prayer. But if that's what God has ordained, then that's what we'll receive.
JANAE: I don't understand!
BILL: Trust me. It'll all work out fine. Can you hear me okay through your headset?
JANAE: Yes. I'm ready.
RICH: Okay, Bishop. I'm punching you right into where Bill and Janae can hear you. Go ahead, Bill.
BILL: Bishop, God bless you for working with us on this. We'll do this as quickly as possible. Thank you again.
JAKES: It's my pleasure.
BILL: It sounds like you've got a house full of company in the background.
JAKES: I told them I needed to do a radio interview and they agreed to wait for me.
BILL: Praise God! We're ready to begin. Bishop Jakes, we may be asking you briefly about your own salvation and how you came to the Lord. And we'll ask you to pray at the end of our little segment here.
JAKES: That's fine.
BILL: Okay, Rich. We're ready. Slate it!
RICH: Stand by......Cooksey's American Carousel interview with Bishop T.D. Jakes begins in three...two...one.
COOKSEY: Well, Bishop Jakes, thank you so much for joining us on Cooksey's American Carousel. How is everything where you are in your life?
JAKES: Everything is wonderful. The Lord is blessing me. And I'm glad to be a part of your show today.
COOKSEY: Thank you so much. Janae and I have been praying that we could get together. So many of our listeners have asked, "When are you going to have Bishop Jakes on the program?" They just love you. We see you on TBN and you are some kind of a preacher's preacher.
JAKES: Thank you, Sir. I'm just a country boy. And the Lord's been good to me.
COOKSEY: Bishop, you're moving all over the country, but you're presenting "The Message" in a very special way. I know you speak on TV, radio, in churches and at these big conferences. Tell us, though, how did YOU find the Lord?
JAKES: I always tell people that I was a church sinner. What I mean is, I was raised in a religious environment. But I really didn't have a personal experience with Jesus Christ. There comes a time that you begin to become hungry for something meaningful and something real. So, I began to seek Him from the pews...that I might go beyond just going to church on Sunday or occasionally...or on holidays...to having a real experience with Jesus Christ in a personal way. He is a personal Savior. And you have to have a real relationship with Him where He becomes a part of your day to day existence. And I think out of that hunger the search began. And I began to seek Him to help me deal with life itself. I was a young man. I'd just lost my father to a terminal kidney disease. I think I felt orphaned and abandoned and was traumatically seeking some answers to questions that were bigger than me. But when I found Jesus, He satisfied!
COOKSEY: And when you found Jesus, when did you feel the call was on your life to preach?
JAKES: Not long after I found the Lord, I described it as getting cravings like a pregnant woman.
COOKSEY: What age was this, now?
JAKES: I've got to say...when I was 16. I'd actually been in church all of my life. But I got saved really at 16.
COOKSEY: An "honest man"!?! Good! There's a lot of people sitting in churches for 30 and 40 years, but they don't really know the Lord. Right?
JAKES: They really do not know the Lord! The tragedy is sometimes religion camouflages them from knowing the Lord. They think they know the Lord because they know church.
COOKSEY: You know, there are many people like that. And as we talk on the radio, there are times that something strikes them like..."Well, is it really worth the risk, if you're not 100% sure, to take a chance that you might be saved and not pray the salvation prayer when the opportunity is there?" We believe it's better to pray that prayer. Don't you believe so?
JAKES: That's right! That's exactly right! And to pray it from your heart.
COOKSEY: Living for Jesus! And if His Word is abiding in you, you've got it made. Right?
JAKES: That's absolutely right!
COOKSEY: When you do all your seminars and other appearances, do you see a lot of unsaved people or people who are playing religion today in many of the places specifically where you speak?
JAKES: Yes! I'm seeing it a lot. And I'm seeing them getting tired of it. Many people have given up on an organized institutionalized church. And they are frustrated because they are looking for answers. But I would like to send a message to them that the Church that they left twenty years ago is not the Church today! It is a vibrant, surging move of God coming back to the Body of Christ. And they need to take another look at the Church. The Church is experiencing tremendous revival.
COOKSEY: Amen! The Holy Ghost is moving! He certainly is!
JAKES: So the Father's House they walked away from may not be at all the Father's House they return to. Because the Father's House has been up under renovation. He's been working on us.
COOKSEY: And we hear a lot of folks, Bishop Jakes, that tell us they knew the Lord and ...obviously, you get into the world and you backslide. What would you say to someone who is listening right now all over the country about the fact that maybe they went away from the Lord like the prodigal son...How can a person return?
JAKES: I would say to them that the House is where you left it. The road is still the same. The Father is looking out the window and He's waiting. He's waiting on you to return. I would say to them to not be intimidated by the mud that they've gathered in the hog pen of life. Whether it's drugs or alcohol or broken homes or broken dreams. He has such a keen vision that He can look beyond all of your faults and see your needs...the emptiness...the void that is existing in your heart. It's the longing that your spirit has to have God back in your life again. If you come back to Him and surrender your brokeness to His Wholeness, He will make you over again into another vessel that seemeth good to the Potter to make anew.
COOKSEY: Bishop, we also have people that call us who are angry at God for some reason or another. They even have a hatred in their heart because perhaps He's taken a child or some reason like that. What would you say to these people who really want God, but they have this hatred they can't get rid of?
JAKES: I think the hatred is just a camouflage for pain. Sometimes it becomes a step in our deliverance that we get stuck in psychologically. We're supposed to work through the frustration and go on into healing. But they've gotten stuck in the anger. And the anger is stopping them from being healed. You have to "Trust God When You Can't Trace Him".
COOKSEY: Oh, that's good! The unforgiveness...in fact, you're angry at God which is the most foolish thing in the world that you could do. But, Bishop, that unforgiveness is rampant in the Church. It's rampant in the world. There's so many people that are just hooked up in those bondages. Do you find that plentiful out there when you're traveling around the country?
JAKES: It is extremely so! Because they get to act out their frustration on the Lord. It becomes an easy vehicle for the rage and trauma. And they become bitter. But if they will notice, their anger is not healing them. They are increasingly bitter and you'll see side effects. Whether it's alcoholism...drugoholism...or sexoholism, there will be some sort of way that they will continue to be traumatized by their situation. And it's because they begin to enter into all these "easy" solutions. Sedatives for the pain. But a sedative for the pain is not healing. It just takes your mind away from dying.
COOKSEY: I saw you recently on Trinity and you were speaking at a women's conference. You did the illustration where you were pretending to dig a hole in the ground to bury the past. Would you speak about that to our listeners?
JAKES: You know, it's so significant that we have a benediction to certain areas of our lives. That we conclude certain things and say, "That was then. This is now." If we don't do that, we are chained to the past. And we're never really free. It doesn't matter how much money you make or how many degrees you have. If you're still chained to an old issue that has not been buried, you're a prisoner...whether you're in a mansion or in a hut.
COOKSEY: You've got to get rid of it. You've got to put it aside. As you said on TV, you must dig that hole and leave the past right there. It's over with. Then you've got to step on it. Right?
JAKES: It is over and it has to be released.
COOKSEY: Jesus said, "It is finished." And that's exactly what we're talking about. Now there's people out there, Bishop Jakes, that are listening. They've heard our conversation. They've seen you on television. Or maybe they've never heard of any of us. But what's important is they've heard the name, Jesus.
JAKES: That's right!
COOKSEY: And if they have Jesus, they have everything. So right now, Bishop, would you just share that Gospel with them and lead someone to the Lord? Because somebody's hurting right now.
JAKES: It's like...if they would just open their heart and begin to pray. Just say with me, "Father, I come to You through my brokeness and pain. And because, Lord, I need something beyond me to heal me. And I believe that You died for my sins. I believe that You rose for my justification. And I accept Your Blood as a cleansing not only for my sins, but from my past." If they'd simply just pray with me and say, "Oh, God, into Thy Hands I commend my life, my past, my present and my future. And I thank You by faith in the Covenant that I have in Your Word. I'm saved by faith in Your Name. In Jesus Name....Amen."
COOKSEY: Brother, you know when that radio goes out, there's people that are praying in cars. People can be praying in bars. Wherever they're at, they can receive Jesus. He's right there. Isn't He?
JAKES: He's right there, wherever you are. One of the Old Testament names for God is Jehovah Shammah. And it means the Lord is Present. He's not on His Way. He's there right now.
COOKSEY: His Hand is not shortened in any way, shape or form. What does a person do once they've said the prayer? Because some people have said the prayer before and it all just stopped right there.
JAKES: I think they ought to get into a good, vibrant ministry. They often ask me after I do my crusades, "What kind of follow up ministry do you have after your crusades?" I told them that I could devise nothing greater than what was already established. He said, "Upon this Rock I will build My Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." And so it is.
COOKSEY: Praise God. The Word is true and it's strong. You know, Bishop Jakes, we just love you for sharing the time with us. And I'm sure many have been touched by this. God bless you for your work for the Lord and we'll be concerned about every place you go. And God bless you for being with us.
JAKES: I've enjoyed being with you today. May God bless you both. Bye-bye.