DR. E. V. HILL: One of Paul
Crouch's favorite...of the Mt. Zion
Missionary Baptist Church
With Bill and Janae Cooksey
Trinity Broadcasting .....George
Forman....it takes the Fruit of the Spirit
to properly handle the Gifts of the Spirit
Taken From "Cooksey's
American Carousel Radio Classics"
TWELVE MEN WITH A PASTOR'S HEART
JANAE: Now is this for real? Are we really going to interview Dr. Hill this morning?
BILL: Janae, everything in life is "iffy" at times. We love this man's wisdom and frankness. God's used him time and time again to bring the Body of Christ closer together.
JANAE: I know that. But, you don't have a definite commitment for today. Do you?
BILL: Okay! It's an 80% chance he'll do it. But remember a few weeks ago, I thought we were going to have an impromptu interview with Dr. Hill. His secretary was so nice. During a break here in the studio, I took a shot and just called his office.
The secretary knew we had really been trying hard to get him. So, bless her heart, she called him at home because he'd not yet come into the office that morning. And she found out he wasn't feeling so good. She had no choice but to say that we couldn't do it then.
JANAE: What about today? You keep beating around the bush. I want a straight answer. I mean, we have Pastor Paul Shroeder from Milwaukee for sure. Do you need to check on Dr. Hill right now?
BILL: It's probably not a bad idea. I realize things change.
JANAE: You check with his office and I'll go get Rich to be set up for an immediate "GO", if Pastor Hill can do it...like now.
BILL: You go ahead. The phone's ringing.
LETHA: Mt. Zion Missionary Baptist Church...may I help you?
BILL: Yes, is this Pastor Hill's secretary, Letha?
LETHA: Yes, it is. Who am I speaking to?
BILL: Letha, this is Bill from KCBC. I'm just checking to make sure that Pastor Hill will be able to do our radio interview in a few minutes.
LETHA: Let me speak with him first. But I think he expecting to do it. I'll go in and make sure he's going to be available. Please stay on the line. I'll be right back.
BILL: I appreciate all your help, Letha. I'll hold.
JANAE: Well, Rich is ready. What's the status on Pastor Hill?
BILL: I'm holding while the secretary double checks with him......Oh, yes, Letha. How does it look?
LETHA: He's ready to do it right now.
BILL: I tell you what. Let me hang up and have our Producer call you back immediately on the digital studio phone line. Don't go away. We'll get right back to you. Thanks.
RICH: Okay, Bill. I'm dialing it.
JANAE: Good deal! I'm excited that we're going to talk with Dr. Hill. He's super.
BILL: Buckle up, Janae. This is going to really be a ride on a spiritual rollercoaster. Dr. Hill doesn't hold back. He speaks the Truth and nothing but the Truth.
RICH: Janae, Dr. Hill's on the line. If you're ready...I'm ready.
JANAE: Do it. Go ahead, Rich. Slate it.
RICH: Stand by......Cooksey's American Carousel interview with Dr. E.V. Hill begins in three.....two.....one.
COOKSEY: Ladies and Gentlemen, I want to introduce to you one of my favorite...and one of Paul Crouch's favorite...one of everybody's favorite pastors in the whole wide world. We have with us today Pastor E.V. Hill of the Mt. Zion Missionary Baptist Church in the Los Angeles area. Pastor Hill, thank you for being with Cooksey's American Carousel today.
HILL: Well, thank you so much for asking me to come. And greetings to all of my friends, particularly those up North.
COOKSEY: Praise God! You know, we're so blessed to have you with us with all your knowledge and experience. My wife and I have enjoyed you so much on Trinity Broadcasting and you've just been such an inspiration to so many people. How long have you been in the ministry now?
HILL: This is my forty-sixth year as a preacher.
COOKSEY: My goodness! Where did all this start?
HILL: Down in Saguine, Texas. That's out from San Antonio.
COOKSEY: Well, you know, we were just talking on the phone a while ago to George Forman's sister. We want to get George on the program here. It's not everyday that a Heavyweight Boxing Champion is also a pastor of a saved church like George has down in Houston, Texas.
HILL: Well, I know him and his family.
COOKSEY: He's a beautiful brother in the Lord. Now, I want to ask you about the most important day in your life. When did you get saved?
HILL: I got saved at eleven years old. I got saved in Sweet Home community which is out from Saguine, Texas.
COOKSEY: And how did it happen?
HILL: Well, it actually happened...well, let me back up. I was fortunate to have been brought up in a rural, Christian community. I don't know too many sinners. And I don't know anybody who was hostile. Even the sinners were kind. A sinner would come up and say, "Young Man, you get yourself saved." And so, I had a strong, fertile, spiritual background. Then the moment and the time came when the decision was offered to me by the Reverend Maze as to whether or not I would come to Christ. I had my first girlfriend by the name of Constance. She led out and I followed her.
COOKSEY: The women are still leading the men into the Kingdom. Aren't they?
HILL: They're doing that.
COOKSEY: See, God will use different ones. Won't He?
HILL: Oh, yes, He will.
COOKSEY: Our listeners are out there right now. There may be a young person that's saying, "You know, I like that girl and she goes to church." Pastor Hill, God certainly put this young lady in your life so she would help lead you to the Lord.
HILL: Amen. Amen.
COOKSEY: Now you went forward and you said the prayer or what...?
HILL: Oh, yes. I went forward and accepted Christ and was later baptized in the old rainy tank which is right up the road from the church. And then, brought on up in the church...and then, in leadership of young people's work. I was the first President of the National Baptist Youth Convention of America at 17. I was elected in New York. From that on into college in the Baptist Student Union...then a real, real experience with the Lord in Nashville, Tennessee at the Baptist Student Union Convention. The call to preach at eleven which I was totally afraid of. I didn't have any understanding as to what that meant and it scared me to death. So I ran from that until I was 17 years old. Then I started preaching and I've been preaching ever since.
COOKSEY: Brother Hill, God blessed us all when He called you. And the same message is right there with every person in ministry that God has given us the privilege of interviewing on this program. I'm talking all kinds of saved walks from Baptists, Pentecostals and you name it. But if you don't accept Jesus, what good is it?
HILL: It's no good at all. You know, I was very pleased to hear a priest, a Catholic priest, say on the air.....He's quite an evangelist. I've been wanting to get a hold of him, because I want him to come in and preach for me. He said, "Your priest might present you. Your mother and father might present you. Your godparents might be there, but you must accept Jesus Christ."
COOKSEY: Well, he's right about that. Praise God!
HILL: Right, but in many ways unique, you know.
COOKSEY: You know, Pastor Hill, my wife in her youth spent eight years in a convent. So she knows exactly what you're talking about.
HILL: Yes! My first wife was a Catholic.
COOKSEY: (BILL) You're kidding me! (JANAE) Pastor Hill, I was a Catholic nun for eight years.
HILL: Sure 'nuff!??!
COOKSEY: She sure was. She was right there. And, you know, many times in ministering to people that are of the Catholic faith we have an opportunity to share. And you have that common denominator with people. You're able to witness. But the main thing is to put the focus on Jesus.....
HILL: That's right.
COOKSEY: And Who He really is. And that's what happens in a lot of these cults that are out there. You see so many of them. They pull people out of the Body of Christ, because they catch them at a time of weakness. How do you deal with that situation? If somebody comes to you, how do you tell them exactly who Jesus Christ is?
HILL: Well, of course, I always prelude my statement to them that I believe the Bible teaches and I believe the Bible. You see,...I believe the Bible and I believe the Bible teaches. And then I proceed in what the Bible says about Jesus.
COOKSEY: You can't do better than that.
HILL: I believe that our God is and our God has spoken. And the third thing I believe is our God has specifically said that Jesus of Nazareth is His Son in Whom He is well pleased.
COOKSEY: They can't argue with that. Can they? That's the Word!
HILL: Our God is. And that's the first thing. He that cometh to God must believe that He is. And the second thing, our God has spoken. A whole lot of people are acting like God ain't said nothing. But God has spoken. And one of the salient points He has said over and over through even the demonstration of raising Him from the dead...is that Jesus of Nazareth...that was being baptized in Jordan by John...is His Son in Whom He is well pleased. Then at that point, I ask, "Do you believe the Bible?" Most people will say, "Yes". Then here's the catch 22. "Do you believe what it says?" To tell me you believe the Bible and then say you don't believe what it says.
COOKSEY: How many tell you they don't know what it says?
HILL: Many say they don't know what it says.
COOKSEY: Many are misled. Aren't they?
COOKSEY: Because they didn't read that Word!
HILL: They don't read the Word. Second of all, they let people take one or two words hither, thither and yond. It's like I say, "You don't walk up to a butcher shop and ask for a hunk of hog." You ask for specific cuts of the hog. So in dealing with the Word of God, you have to know how to rightly divide the Word of Truth.
COOKSEY: Boy, you hit it on the head then. Didn't you?
COOKSEY: Pastor, one of the classics that people always refer to is when they tell you that the Bible says, "God helps those who help themselves."
HILL: Where does it say that?
COOKSEY: You know, I haven't found that in there yet.
HILL: Second of all, if that be true,...who helps the helpless?
COOKSEY: And I've heard the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And when you ask them where is the specific scripture that actually says that...they respond, "Well, I've heard it all my life."
COOKSEY: You know, Pastor Hill, we've had people call and give their heart to Christ. But then they can't stand on their commitment because they won't make time daily to get in that Word. What would you say to them that would make them want to read that Bible?
HILL: Well, I'd give them an illustration. And that is, when you go into your doctor's office, he does what you call checking your vital signs. He checks your pulse. He checks your heartbeat. He checks your sugar. He checks your blood pressure. And all of these are called vital signs. And they are supposed to be functioning at certain levels. Once you accept Jesus Christ, there are some vital signs that will let you know whether or not you are, in fact, accepting Jesus Christ. One is that you hunger and thirst after righteousness which is the Word of God. If there is no hunger on your part...if there is no desire on your part to consume the Word of God...to be taught the Word of God, then that is a very, very poor sign that you've been born again. Another sign is you seek to tell others what happened to you...and what is happening to you. A person that does not tell his testimony and does not share his testimony that he believes that Jesus is the Christ and that he has not only confessed that, but become associated with it in baptism. That's another poor sign that a vital sign is not functioning. The other one is he loves the Church. He loves the fellowship of the Church. And he wants it to be not only in Heaven, but now. He wants to help it to be a glorious, working, winning, helping Church. Now if he stands back and let's the Church struggle...let's the Church be beat up and torn down...and young people with nobody to help them when they have talent...then I can't see where he has a vital sign. So I go the vital sign route. Now there are those who place the emphasis on praise...and on the Gifts of the Spirit as their evidence that they have been saved. I emphasize the Fruit of the Spirit.
COOKSEY: And so do the Scriptures.
HILL: Yeah! You see, the Gifts can be imitated. But the Fruit of the Spirit has to be born by the Spirit. You can't imitate it.
COOKSEY: No, you can't. It comes from within you.
HILL: It's just like walking up biting on a plastic apple. It might look like an apple and all of that red like an apple. But when you bite on it, it'll give your teeth some problems. So unfortunately, we're living in an age now where the Gifts of the Spirit...preaching ability, profitability, this ability, that ability is being lifted up and emphasized as proof that "I have the Gift". Well, Gifts can be imitated. But the Fruit of the Spirit is so important because it takes the Fruit of the Spirit to properly handle the Gifts of the Spirit.
COOKSEY: Oh, that's a good statement. That's loaded. That's powerful!
HILL: So you have a lot of people who are prostituting the Gifts of the Spirit, because they do not have the Fruit of the Spirit. And you have to be very careful.
COOKSEY: We had Dr. Bill Bright here on the program one day. And we were asking about people who accept Jesus and then as you said, "Have no desire after that to follow through with reading the Bible and prayer". Now he's a very quiet, conservative gentleman. He came forth and he said, "Well, then, they need to read I John, chapter 2." Because it says the truth is not in them. I mean it's not there.
COOKSEY: And just as you're saying, that Fruit is not being produced.
HILL: That's right.
COOKSEY: And they have to bear Fruit or they're not walking the walk. And unfortunately, that person has made maybe a commitment in words, but that's all it is. Isn't it?
HILL: That's right. And it is a commitment that often is solicited from them by promises that they seek rather than Salvation.
COOKSEY: I can see that. But there's other people out there right now, Pastor, that are listening to us in their car or their home or wherever they are across the country. And they're hearing this program. Maybe they've heard about Jesus. They got turned off by somebody on their television or their radio. Like somebody, as you said, who was prostituting the gifts, perhaps. And they don't know the difference between one preacher or another. I heard Jerry Fawell in Dallas one time say that some people who watched a lot of different TV preachers told him that they didn't know the difference between him and Ernest Ansley. And, of course one is a Fundamental Baptist and the other is a Pentecostal. They just thought they both had different preaching styles. But these people accepted them, because they said they represented Jesus. You know, right now, Pastor, would you just take a moment to lead into the Kingdom that person listening who needs to accept Christ? Could you just prepare their hearts for that and pray with them?
HILL: Yes, I would be glad to. Number one, I want everybody who is listening to me across the country to agree with the Scripture that says, "You are lost without Christ." For all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. Until you see yourself lost, you will not seek a Savior. If you feel that you are alright, you will not seek a Savior. But, if you feel you're alright, and you feel you don't need a Savior...it's because you have rebuked and you have turned down what the Scripture says. And so, I want you to see yourself lost. I want you to see that in you and in nothing that you're dealing with...materialism or what have you...occultism or intellectualism...can save you. Because you're still lost. And I want you to see how simple God made it for you to be saved. He sent a substitute...that completely pleased Him. I don't care who you are or where you are, you cannot say, "I have and can completely please God." You can't say that. There is not a moment in your life that you remember now...if not even now, that you cannot say, "I can completely please God." But if you can't completely please God...and nobody will go before God unless they are completely pleasing to God...how are you going to get saved? You're going to get saved by accepting the only One He has put in as our substitute and that's Jesus. Well, how do you accept Him? As we're talking now say, "Lord Jesus, I admit I'm a sinner. I admit that I have displeased You and come short. I now fully conscientiously, knowingly and willingly accept Your Substitute which You said is pleasing to You. And as many as believed on Him shall not perish. And I accept it right now. And I accept as proof that I'm saved Your Word, that said, 'As many as received Him, to them will He give power to become Sons of God.' That's my proof. Because You cannot lie. In Jesus Name, I pray that You will come into my heart, Lord. And I thank You, Father, for Your Gift." Now if you prayed that prayer...if that prayer sounds like something that you would like to pray, then call the number they'll give you on this program. Call Campus Crusade. Talk to your pastor. Talk to a godly person and go from there.
COOKSEY: That's so powerful. You know, I've never believed there's a time when a message was sent and given out in an invitation prayer...that somebody didn't accept. There's just so many people. There's billions of people not saved in this world. But God uses each and everyone of the Body in bringing that to pass. And what you've said today has been just a mouthful. I'm telling you, we could have been three hours on this. But the powerful thing is that somebody's life was changed today, Brother Hill.
COOKSEY: And as long as somebody's life is changed, they become dangerous. I mean they can lead other people to the Lord. Can't they?
HILL: And the devil knows that and the devil will try to discourage you. That's why...don't look around for an experience. Don't look around for a feeling. Depend on the "Promised Word of God". If you believe, you will be saved. That is your evidence. He will not and cannot lie.
COOKSEY: And that's the true living by faith.
COOKSEY: That's the following through with that Bible and prayer and everything else. You know, we've watched you so many times on Trinity. You've been on there for quite a number of years now. Do you enjoy doing that kind of stuff?
HILL: Oh, yes.
COOKSEY: And it's demanding for you. Isn't it?
HILL: Oh, it very demanding...very tiresome. But it's a ministry.
COOKSEY: Do you know how loved you are by so many people?
HILL: Well, I appreciate that.
COOKSEY: I want to ask our listeners to pray for Brother E.V. Hill and all of his ministry. And the wisdom that God has imparted to him...that he might be able to have the chance to continue to share that. We need leaders, Brother, in the Body of Christ. We need someone to share what they've learned. Because it's hard when you're going down that road and you're a new believer. Isn't it?
HILL: Amen. And particularly, I want them to pray for me this weekend. I go to New Orleans tomorrow night for Promise Keepers. I understand over 70,000 have registered.
COOKSEY: You know, you just keep on doing what you're doing. Jesus will take care of the rest of it. Won't He?
COOKSEY: Listen, we love you, Brother. We shall continue to pray for you as you go forth and do your work for the Lord.
HILL: Thank you.
COOKSEY: Amen. Bye-bye, Brother.