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JACK HAYFORD: "The Horrible Truth of Hell" "Heaven's Gates and Hell's Flames"
Radio Interview
With Bill and Janae Cooksey


Right relationship with God... Wisdom to walk... Key to Eternal Life... God's purpose in our life...

Taken From "Cooksey's American Carousel Radio Classics"
Bill and Janae Cooksey

JANAE: Bill.....Bill! Get off the phone.

BILL: Shhhhh---Janae, I'm talking to Ron Kite with Morris Cerullo's office. Be quiet, I'm setting up the time of next week's interview with Brother Cerullo. You'll have to wait.....I'm sorry, Ron. Now, what time did you say was best?

JANAE: Rich, turn on your mike in the control room. I have to talk to you.

RICH: Okay, Janae. I'm here.

JANAE: Rich, I know we're behind schedule today, but you know my husband. He's determined to lock up the interview with Morris Cerullo.

RICH: I understand his concern, Janae. But we've got much bigger problems now! Jack Hayford's just called our receptionist and says he's ready to do the interview NOW!!!

JANAE: Jack Hayford? But he's not scheduled for today. Bill's been talking to Pastor Hayford's people....but we thought we'd know ahead of time. Let me get Bill off that phone. Don't go away.

BILL: Okay, Ron, that sounds good. I'll call you on Monday to make sure that........

JANAE: Bill!!! You get off that phone. Rich says we've got big problems.

BILL: What? Hold on, Ron. I'll be right back.

JANAE: Rich says Jack Hayford called "out of the blue" and said he wants to go ahead and do the interview now.

BILL: Now? But..uh....

JANAE: Rich says it sounds like Pastor Hayford's at home sitting in his living room ready to talk to us.

BILL: How? I mean,.....I didn't know that he would......

JANAE: Listen to me! Do you want to miss an interview with your "hero", Jack Hayford?

BILL: Well, no.

JANAE: Then, tell the nice man on the other end of the phone, "Goodbye." And that you'll call him back. Do it now!

BILL: Hello, Ron. I...uh...I've got to go...uh, Jack Hayford just called in for an interview and I've got to do it right now. I'll call you on Monday. Bye!

JANAE: Hurry up! Get the earphones on! Pastor Hayford's not going to wait all day.

RICH: He left his home phone number, so I could call back on the digital studio line. It's ringing now.

BILL: But what will we discuss? I mean,....uh......

JANAE: Why are you shaking? I've never seen you so shook!

BILL: I'm okay. I'll just wing it. Where's my Jack Hayford material? Do you have it?

JANAE: Here it is! Take it!

RICH: Okay, Pastor Hayford, I'm punching you right into the production room with the Cookseys.

BILL: Pastor Hayford, thank you, Sir, for giving us this time. We appreciate your patience in our getting started. The Producer is about to slate the program now.

RICH: Stand by.....Cooksey's American Carousel interview with Pastor Jack Hayford begins in



COOKSEY: Well, Pastor Hayford, I'm so happy you could join us today. Thank you for your time that you're giving us here. I was reading this article about the horrible truth of hell that you've just sent out referring to this wonderful stage production of "Heaven's Gates and Hell's Flames" you recently had at your church in Van Nuys. Can you tell us how this play was received down at your church?

HAYFORD: Well, Bill and Janae, it was just as thrilling a response as we could possibly imagine. There were over five thousand decisions for Christ in the twelve presentations that were made. And I think the thing that most gratified me was...maybe two things. The first was that in an environment here in the Los Angeles area that is highly sensitive to drama and media, because of the many professional people here, the simplicity of "Heaven's Gates and Hell's Flames" was an uncertain commodity. How will people respond to something as simply presented as this? The fact is that the simplicity of it only increased the profundity. And there was just a great response even from people who recognized we weren't in the business of trying to attempt great art, but trying to communicate a great truth. Secondly, I was delighted with the grasp of our congregation in preparing for the event. We are not a very hellfire and brimstone outfit .

COOKSEY: But you've got some kind of church. I've been there.

HAYFORD: We certainly hold forth the truth, but it's difficult often times to how do you balance the love of God with the fact of our people in preparation for it really bit into the Greatness of the Revelation of God's Love in the Word and how much He desires for people to avoid the consequences of self-imposed judgment that disobedience to His Way brings. It was such a beautiful response in every way. It was thrilling. It was dynamic. It was evangelistically effective. We didn't have anybody complain that this thing was a hateful representation of a vindictive God. It was just dynamic !

COOKSEY: Well, you know, we've had Pastor Berteau on the program before, and he stated that in Modesto, California, when it played here last year, that the play had 33,000 salvations in 28 performances.

HAYFORD: I heard those statistics. It's just about as thrilling a thing I've ever heard anywhere.

COOKSEY: The most important thing, Jack, is that one of the camera people from a local station was there, and she's a saved sister in the Lord. She said that she watched the people go forward and they were given cards to fill out. And for every one card that was filled out, there were at least two people who couldn't get to the front to fill out the card and left. So that's even more overpowering. It's just unbelievable! But God put the anointing on the play for a special time. Do you agree with that?

HAYFORD: I do. This is an instrument that I believe is designed by the Holy Spirit for a video minded culture. You know, we have the music TV, MTV culture and response. Fifty per cent of our respondents were 18 and under.

COOKSEY: That's what they had here in Modesto. Gangs and all kinds of other people came bringing their rags and everything else. This play is something! It's been going on for many, many years. I have this paper here that you had sent out about this offer you were making on one of your radio programs. The paper is called "The Horrible Truth of Hell". And you told us you're not fire and brimstone, but you're telling the truth. The truth is there is an eternal hell.

HAYFORD: One of the most moving Sunday morning worship services we've had in sometime was just two weeks before we began "Heaven's Gates and Hell's Flames". I spoke on God's Heart and human condemnation. I took the passage in the third chapter of John which is, of course, so beloved to us all.....of God's Love for the world and His Desire that none perish. I don't know that I've ever had in all my years of pastoring here...I've spoken four times on the subject of hell, scattered over about twenty-five years where I made it the theme of the message. I don't mean it's the only time the subject would ever come up to where it is the subject. But I've had tremendous response from our congregation saying that they (the play's producers) gave them a tool to give to friends. It answers the questions people have about God, hell, love and truth. How all this fits together without casting God as the bad guy. And anybody that argues against hell is somehow coming to the fountain of wisdom. We've had a great response in that. So the paper you're referencing is a letter we wrote to our media audience. And we've had a lot of responsive people interested in the two-tape series.

COOKSEY: Do you feel like people over the years have just been afraid to bring the subject up? Or has it just been watered down, with the society being desensitized or...?

HAYFORD: I think that most pastors are almost painted into a corner by the handful of insensitive preachers who talk on hell almost as though it was a delight to them to damn sinners to an eternity apart from God. It's certainly not a delight on the Father's part, Father God. And His own Son was the price tag that He paid in order to make an out for people. And that indicates that God takes no delight in hell. So when you find the occasional preacher who...whether it's a caricature or an actual person. It puts you in the position of almost every pastor feeling, "Look, I believe this is true, but I'm almost compromised in my ability to communicate it without being part of the caricature." It's a real challenge to know how to be forthright in the proclamation of the truth without sounding like you're down right mean. I'm grateful that the Lord assisted us in this communication. In fact, I'm sure this year at our pastors' seminar we have each year that there'll be sizable numbers of pastors who will be pleased to have the resource. Because I'm hoping to assist those who wish, with something that can help them communicate this essential truth in a way that people can receive.

COOKSEY: You know, we have thousands of names that have been called into us from all over the country for prayer. The thing is many of them are people who are backslid. People who have come to the Lord and fallen away. And they didn't believe the real truth. Now this truth is presented in a generous, loving way. A way of truth which you have prepared here's wonderful! We've loved your ministry over the years. But, it's so wonderful to see that the play worked so well down there and that God is working in the lives of so many. Pastor Jack, would you just take a moment and pray and lead someone to the Lord for us?

I know there's literally millions of people that can tune in to this broadcast. And many people have been saved right over the radio waves. And I would just be appreciative so much if you would be willing to say a simple prayer and lead someone into the Kingdom.

HAYFORD: Well, Bill and Janae, let me say this. With whoever hears my voice now and would want to pray and say, "God, I want to have a right relationship with you and know what it was You made me I can be that without the compromising or the loss of the true character of Your Purpose in me." I would tell you, Dear Friend, that God had you in mind from before you existed. He gave His Son, Jesus, to assure that whatever in your life would hinder you're knowing His fullness of Love and Purpose in life, He gave His Son, Jesus, to open the door forward for all that He made you to be. And so the key is...say this from your heart. "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, I call on You to be my Savior and the Doorway to not only my eternal life, but my purpose in life today until Your Eternal Kingdom." Father, hear the prayer of this one as they now respond. And give them wisdom now in these first steps to follow through so they may gain a walk forward with clarity and understanding. In Your Precious Name we pray. Amen.

COOKSEY: Amen. Just out of curiosity, Pastor, how old were you when you found the Lord?

HAYFORD: Ten years old.

COOKSEY: Oh, praise the Lord. I've heard your testimony . It's really something. See, it's a special moment and I know someone prayed that prayer. I never have a doubt in my mind. Absolutely! And we're just so thankful. Thank you for giving us this time, Pastor Jack. We'll be praying for you and that the follow up for all those people that got saved in your church will continue on...and that God's Harvest will continue.

HAYFORD: God bless you both.

COOKSEY: Thank you, Brother. God bless you. Bye,bye.